Monday, September 04, 2006

So Irish people have an incredible amount of team spirit. I first saw this when I watched the Munster vs. Biarritz Rugby League final here (I think I wrote about it in a previous entry). Not being one to miss a final Matt, Oisin, Watsy and his mate Miriam and I went down to Mulligans to watch the hurling final on Sunday. Hurling is a uniquely Irish game that is a cross between field hockey and lacrosse. Guys run around with long wooden sticks called "hurleys" trying to hit a small leather ball, called a "schlitter" (that's a phonetic spelling) either into a goal for 3 points or above the goal for 1 point. The final game was Cork vs. Kilkenny and two of Oisin's mates who showed up were the only 2 Kilkenny supporters in the whole pub. Sadly, Cork lost (I think the score was 1-13 to 1-16). But the real point of my writing this entry is not about the game itself but what was painted on the pubs windows in support of the game--a confederate flag. So we got to talking about it during halftime and Osh told us about how he and his mate brought a confederate flag to Oxygen last year and got a lot of stick for it. His explanation was that it is just a sign of rebels, not a confederate flag. To be honest, I was flabbergasted. He saw nothing wrong with waving it around. Cork, for those who don't know, is considered "the Rebel county" as being the home of Michael Collins and was considerately more difficult for the British to police as it's further away from Dublin. In any event, he barely acknowledged that this flag was the same flag that was created and flew in support or racism, slavery, states rights and oppression. I tried to reason with him saying that I understand people who use the swastika as a symbol today because it was a pagan symbol long before the Nazi's stuck it on their arm bands. But the confederate flag's roots are in the freaking Civil War. In the States today i know people who fly it to show their support for the values that it was created in honor of. It did not exist before that and the naivete of the Irish people just astounds me. Matt and I talked about it on the way home and I looked it up on the net and found a really interesting article talking about how some people are calling for the GAA (that's the Gaelic football and hurling association) to ban it and are facing loads of opposition. You can read the article here: http://www.flagwire.com/index.php?doc=28&aid=263

5 Comments:

At 1:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Miss Lindsay Ann,

This post may never be seen by anyone, but here goes.

You are simply repeating the lies and propaganda about the Confederate South and it's Flag.

True, the South had slavery - for 4 years under the Confederate Flag.

But it is also true the United States had slavery under the Stars and Stripes for 89 years.

It is further true the America had slavery for 229 years since Jamestown.

Now for a better angle, on St Patrick's Day a long time ago, a gentleman by the name of Patrick Ronayne Cleburne was born in County Cork there in Ireland.

He moved to America and later joined the Confederate States Army.

He was such a great leader, he was appointed General, and lost only 1 battle - and that is where he died - in Franklin Tennessee.

Robert E Lee called him a Meteor Shining Brightly. Others called him Stonewall of the West. The rest simply call him a hero.

Cleburne County Alabama, Cleburne County Arkansas, and Cleburne Texas are named in his Honor, and Cleburne County Alabama has adopted his Battleflag as their county flag.

What a great honor it is for the citizens of Cork to wield the General's Battleflag at each Rebels game!

Poor lost souls like Joe Moore of the SWP have no clue of history, they only want to pander to hype and hysteria.

 
At 3:40 PM, Blogger Lindsay Anne said...

Dear Anonymous,

Yes, America had slavery for many years and not just under the confederate flag, however it is what or rather how many people see the Confederate flag today that bothers me in it's use in events such as Sports. I don't know where you're from but i grew up with many a person who identified with the confederate flag, all of whom we're racist. I'd like to think that this is an isolated incident for many American's but it's not. It's a shame perhaps that such groups have adopted this to represent such horrible ideas, however, that's how things are. As that's such, i stand by my opinion that i don't believe that that flag has any right to be flown at gaelic games. How would you feel if suddenly they wanted to wave flags with swastickas on them at games to suddenly show tribute to Irelands pagan roots? The confederate flag is not something that was suddenly forced to represent horrible acts such as slavery. It is the emblem of the South and therefore of slavery in my opinion. While i respect your opinon, i don't really see the connection between an Irishman fighting in the confederate army and the reason to wave his flag at a football game over a hundred years later. The flag still represents the same thing to me--a sign of repression. You might not feel the same, but to call my views and Joe Moore's views "lies" is unfair.

 
At 12:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Miss LindsayAnn

Repeating a lie and lying are seperate issues. Please, I never called you a liar. Nice try tho :-)

It would be silly for someone to show a swastika for Irelands roots, as the swastika is of asian/hindu origins. The swastika with perfect horizontal-verticle angles is for good luck. The swastika tilted at a 45 degree angle is hate. Anyone with 2 minutes of education knows that.

The Confederate Battleflag was created after the war began by soldiers, for soldiers, to be used by soldiers, without any political implications. Battleflags of the era meant then what name badges and dog tags mean today.

If however you feel that a soldiers Battleflag equates to the politics of why the soldiers fought, then certainly the US 10th Cavalry flag equals murder of Indians, the US 3rd Infantry Battleflag equals war for lower gas prices and all battleflags since 1970 stand for abortion.

Here is what a black man says about the Confederate Batleflag

http://southernheritage411.com/

 
At 12:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What do you mean, nice try?

You seem intent on trying to ruffle my feathers and upset me. Yet aren't listening to what i'm saying. It does not matter what the origins of the flag are, that's not how many people see it today. If it continues to represent anyone's views or support of racism (ie the Klu Klux clan still use it as one of their symbols), then it doesn't belong flown at a sporting event. Politics and personal beliefs (which flags, symbols, etc.. represent) do not belong in Sports.

At the end of the day, you're entitled to your belief as i am mine. I'm going to stand firm. It's great if you want to educate people and inform them of it's roots, however to call those who still find it offensive names is unfair.

I would think that in trying to unite people on the same side for something like say a sporting event, you'd want a symbol that would bring everyone together in support rather than driving some of us away.

 
At 5:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Miss Lindsey Ann

I have no desire to ruffle your feathers or upset you. If I have I apologise.

The "Nice Try" part came from where I had originally said you repeated a lie, and you responded by saying I called you a liar. I haven't called you a name at all.

Joe Moore said "The (US)rebel flag comes from a totally different context where people in the US were protecting slavery" and "It represents the promotion of racism and slavery"

Joe Moore is from Cork's Socialist Workers Party. He doesn't inform the media and others that slavery was legal and already protected in America for 229 years by the US Constitution.

Joe Moore also never said a word about Cork Rebel Fans waving the old Red and Yellow Hammer and Sickle of the USSR and the Empire of Japan Rising Sun flags at the games.

Since the Confederate Government never killed a single slave, but combined the USSR and Imperial
Japanese slaughtered near 100,000,000 innocent men women and children, then one must question Joe Moore's secret agenda.

Finally, to expand the logic of your recent post, the KKK has used (unofficially) the Confederate Flag since the late 1950's. The KKK Has always officially used the United States Flag since 1865. If you are gonna ban 1 flag because a hate group misappropriated it, what about the US Flag? Into the trash bin also?

This Saturday March 17th is St Patrick's Day, and Major General Patrick Ronayne Cleburne's Birthday. I will be marching as a Confederate Soldier in the annual Cleburne Day Parade in Heflin Alabama carrying the Cleburne Battleflag.

God Bless You, your opinions and travels, and may the happiness you seek be within your grasp. You are
truly a very Beautiful young lady with so much to offer! You have a new fan out here in cyberspace...

My name is Billy Bearden, and I live in Georgia.

 

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